Janine Bolon: Thank you for joining us today. This is Janine Bolon with the writers our creative conversations and I am visited with by Nancy’s there. She happens to be a sales psychologist and strategist. Not only that she is an author speaker and consultant and basically she helps entrepreneurs kind of take the fear out of sales conversations and basically replaces it with confidence and who cannot use a little bit more of that. Right? And I know for many of the authors out there what they kind of would love to have is just a little coaching a little help when it comes to promoting their books. I mean, we all talked about writing the book and we have had many many writers on. And today, I thought we had take a just a slightly different time talk about. Okay, what happens after the book is written and then you have to go and do something that is so outside so far removed from your comfort zone and that is getting out and actually selling your book as we like to say, you know, flipping your books or flopping your books. There is different types of terms for when you have to go out and start selling books. So, anyway, let us talk a little bit about Nancy just for a moment first.
She is a psychologist and strategist and she also helps people with how to start a sales conversation using relationship marketing techniques, how to follow up, how to handle questions, and how to handle objections while I really do not know if I want to buy this book and I don not know if it is appropriate. Basically, how do you get yourself hired or how to promote yourself in a way that people want to have you as a speaker? Especially if you are an author, you know that selling books is only one aspect of your business. There is also the other things so Nancy earned her master’s and doctorate degree at Boston College and is a former professor of Social Work. She is an author of several books including compelling selling and her International bestseller words that sell with style. She is accredited in sales training and adult learning, and Nancy turns education into entertainment.
She has a secret desire. Did you know that? Did you know that? She has a secret desire to go racing on the auto van. So be ready to laugh and think and share and be wowed as she drives home the idea of how buyers buy and why. Thank you for joining us Nancy.
Nancy: Oh, it is my pleasure as you need. I’m glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Janine: Yeah, it is one of the things we love to do here at the writers are help writers throughout the entire process of the writing journey. From dealing with your own internal demons as you are aware of any anyone who has written a book understands. There are so many dark some nights of the soul just trying to get the book written. Then, after you write it then comes the next level up. If you are a gamer, you level up and then you have to deal with the demons that the outside of the world of having to sell this silly thing. So yeah talk to us a little bit about your own process not only of your writing the book but what really drove you to write the book to help other people out? I had love to hear that.
Nancy: So I have written four books. And I know that for me writing the books came from the fact that I had a lot of knowledge and expertise and subject matter, you know, know how that I wanted to share with the world and that was really the motivation. I wanted to get my message to more people and writing a book made sense at that point as it probably does too to others who write nonfiction material.
Janine: So, when you get ready to sit down and start writing a book. Did you just hammer it out and it was no problem and it just flowed seamlessly and you are one of those lucky point one percent of authors who just like, “I got the idea and I just typed in it was done”?
Nancy: Of course not. You and I, are both laughing and smiling as you were asking the question. Let alone my listening to the question because of course ninety-nine point nine percent of people it does not flow that way. There are parts that do flow because obviously you have a message you have material, you know, so it does flow in that sense. But the the actual crafting of words to express what is inside. Wow. I mean it is very much like a Michelangelo who is chipping away at that solid block of marble and you see what the vision is. You see David inside the marble but to get David to emerge and to look like David so other people see it, that is the challenge for us writers.
Janine: Yeah, that is really the work that is what is necessary and what needs to happen. So, you have written four books. So do you have like a writing structure? Are you one of those writers that writes every day, or are you more project-based person? Tell us a little bit about your process. How do you write? Because you have a practice, you have a business, you have a lot of things going on in your world. So share with us a little bit, how you managed to get book writing in amongst all that other stuff that you do.
Nancy: I am a project focused person. So right now I actually have three books that I am working on they go together. So, hence, that is why there are three of them. I have a lot of material. I have written out the material , and then frankly organizing it in a way that makes better sense. So I have blocked out time periods. And for me, I find a two to three hour time period is a minimum. I have to get back into the groove. My thought process, I have to almost like, you know, priming a pump. If you if you have ever done that there is a lot of cranking of the apparatus without anything coming out before there is flow of water. And in my case, I ,the way I prime my pump is I read previous section or the section I am about to edit. And that kind of gets me back into the thought process and the flow, but I do need that concentrated period of time and I block it out in my schedule.
Janine: So there is many people that operate using a project-based, some people like to write every day. And so one of the things that I wanted to have you work a little bit more around is, then you are done writing the book and you are sitting there holding it in your little fists and you are so proud of yourself, and you should be. You should pat yourself on the back. I am saying every writer who finally gets that book done. We understand it but then comes the next it is like the ten labors of Hercules, right? Because then you thought you had the worst part behind you or the big part. Now comes the marketing. So you have this wonderful thing about appreciating marketing that is you have that format going on. Tell us a little bit about how you share that with people.
Nancy: Yeah it. You know, many of us do not realize that the bigger task is marketing what we are doing as opposed to the doing of it. We all love the doing of it. I know that even though it is at times painful to write and to edit your words, nonetheless, that is a certain joy. There is a fulfillment as you see the words come onto the pages and then when you see the pages materialize into an actual form, this is very exciting, but we are in the business of then marketing that material. That raises a whole new set of skills. Most of us do not have those skills. I certainly did not have the skills. I was not focused on marketing my entire career, and yet there I am. You know, I have the first book I wrote by the way was on workplace hostility, myth and reality, a nice light little novel. I am laughing. Obviously, it was based on my experience as a psychologist working with companies where they experienced violence in the workplace. So, what did I know about marketing? I mean, I knew nothing about marketing. And the topic was not exactly a light, airy, fun topic. How how do you market a book like that? Well for so many of us, I think we look to that publishing company that third-party publisher. That is somehow going to take that book and make it into this, you know, bestseller or certainly get it in the hands of others. Honestly, I have to tell you Janine that did not happen for me because that first book was published by a third party and it went nowhere.
Janine: That is an all too true and frequent refrain by many authors. They do not realize the amount of marketing that the author themselves have to do. Not everybody has the ability to hit the first novel and have huge steamrolling. We have a lot of authors out there who do very, very well, but then there is what I like to say those of us whose missions are not necessary international, but we do have a niche market. We do have something that we are supposed to be doing. So, talk to us a little bit about what you mean by appreciation marketing. What is that definition? And tell us a little bit about that aspect because obviously you had to learn it. You had to. You had to create this new way of marketing for yourself because like you say you were writing books that were not necessarily who “before I go to sleep, let me read this really awesome thriller”. I mean, you are your writing about some pretty serious topic. So what is appreciation marketing?
Nancy: Appreciation of course is being able to express gratitude. And in this case express gratitude for other people, because it is other people that are going to help you. And I have found that one of the best ways to express appreciation. I have certainly, you can say thank you and you can gushing [inaudible] about whatever it is the person’s done for you. But having a tangible thing that they can hold in their hand is a great way to express that appreciation, and so I use cards and gifts as my main way for doing it, appreciation marketing. I particularly like to pick out cards and personalize them with photos or family pictures or other things that are significant like the book cover. I did that for author friend of mine. And you know, it is something that becomes a keepsake. It is very personalize with of course my message , but it also means so much to the individual receiving it. And that to me is what appreciation marketing is all about.
Janine: And that has kind of come under the heading of relationship marketing. You hear a lot of that, and what I find funny is people have been doing that with like Tupperware and Mary Kay and other types of things for decades. You know, relationship marketing has been around for a very long time and I find it funny that all of a sudden you hear it everywhere. And I am like, well anyone who is been in business longer than five years knows how important the relationships not only with their current customers is but also their you know, potential customers and referrals and all that kind of stuff. So, the other thing that you talked about and write about is you have these four types of personalities. These four types of buyers that are interested in and sometimes it helps an author to know what kind of audience that they are playing to when they are giving speaking about their book, they are doing readings, or something like that. If they can incorporate something for every one of these four personalities that is helpful in a presentation or whether you are just out on or audio program like this on a podcast. So what are those four types of buyers? And can you give us a couple of tips that you have learned over the years about that?
Nancy: So first, I want to point out that the introduction that I sent to Janine, and chief course did some modification because we do know each and have worked with each other a few times, nonetheless, that introduction covered all four personality styles and so by crafting that and giving it to her ahead of time, which is absolutely a recommendation. If you are speaking at a bookstore or speaking in front of an audience or an association, you should always have an introduction that you personally have written for them to read and this is the way you can ensure that they are going to touch the various four types of listeners that are in the audience. And so what are those for listeners? There is a listener who is full of excitement and the energy and adventure, so hence, driving on the auto van is definitely a message that appeals to that listener. And they say to themselves, “Oh, I had like to know and hear what she has to say”. Then there is the listener that really wants to connect heart to heart on a deep friendship level, and so by letting them know I am a psychologist social worker, personal experience about my family and so forth. This is a way for them to say, “Oh, I would like to get to know her”. And then there is the third buyer that really is impressed by credentials. They want to know how long I have been doing this, the fact that I have four books that I am an author, that it is Dr. Nancy’s are these. These are the things that will appeal to them. And your last listener is the person who is very much into expertise. And yes, you can tell them about your credentials. You can tell them about awards or recognition or all that, but honestly, they need to make sure that you are smart and that you that when you open your mouth you sound wise and ,hence, again, you want to tell them that you are are a learned person. But nonetheless, they need to figure it out for themselves as they listen to you.
Janine: So you have these beautiful four personality types, the adventurer the heart to heart, the one who likes credentials, and the one who enjoys people to have some expertise. You know, and I can’t say, I can’t say that I do not blame them for that. Because you know if you are going to spend time and you set aside time, you have given up something else and so for those who are really time-management oriented you want to make sure that you are spending time with somebody who has something to say. And so most authors by the time they get there book published, do have something to say. They have contemplated it. They have worked out it. So I had like every author out there to know that what your book is saying whether it is fiction or whether it is non-fiction, is important. There are stories. There is lessons. There is metaphors there. They are actually going to help someone. So what Nancy’s their can do is help you craft not only your bios, but also give you some tips on how to go about selling your book to these four different personalities without sounding sales. You are not going to come off as some cheesy sales person because of it. I have been lucky enough to be able to read her book compelling selling. So do you mind Nancy talks to us through what was your driving factor to write that book? I mean here you are a psychologist, strategists, and you focus on entrepreneurs, but why compelling selling? I mean, what was the impetus for that? Please, share.
Nancy: So you said the key word strategist and that is exactly why I wrote the book there. It was a very strong strategy behind it. I mentioned that I had written my first book and it was published by an outside source, and it went nowhere, which I was not looking for it to go anywhere. As I said, I wrote it more because I felt I needed to connect with more people in the field and my message needed to have a broader audience. The second time I wrote a book it was an electronic book, and I wrote it again because I had bubbling up with in me the desire to communicate to a broader audience. But I had no clue that you are supposed to market a book. It went nowhere, but I had a book. I was an author published author and there is credibility to that all by itself. This third book that became an international bestseller in January 2020. I wrote that and deliberately worked with a marketing advisor, a coach, on how to make it a best seller. Because, I knew that that would enhance my credibility and the intention was to publish it in hard copy. However, the Covid situation came about in which there would be no book signings. Hence, I delayed publishing it in a physical form and then I took a step back and I thought okay. Why did I write that book words that sell was style? I wrote it again for purposes stretch strategically to help me get my word, my message to a broader audience and to hopefully attract clients to my coaching business. Well that had not changed just because Covid came along, but it did give me an opportunity to take that book rewrite it, add much content to it. And again in a very strategic way decide to publish it in physical form, which I did. It is now called compelling selling and I use it as a I am going to be brass[?] here a five dollar business card, because it cost about five dollars for it to be published or for me to publish and mail it to somebody because at this point I am not physically meeting with people. So mostly I am mailing it but it is a it is a five dollar business card which immediately communicates to the receiver. Amazing credibility on my part and expertise. So it helps me get selling engaged, speaking engagements, where of course I could sell the book and it helps me attract more clients plus Janine. I wrote the book with a couple of calls to action in the book. And so it was marked it was it is, it is was written strategically for the purposes of promoting my business. It is so much easier to buy an inexpensive book under twenty dollars. And that let that do the marketing for me than it is for me to say, “Hey by my two thousand dollar coaching program”.
Janine: Yeah, yeah, you do not say. It is one of those things that has coaches and professional coaches that it is much easier to have a, I think it was Mike Capozzi [?] of bite-sized books who coined the term business card on steroids, is what he says when he talks about his free books. He, he actually works with business owners with free books and I am mentioning Mike Capozzi because he is the one that got Nancy and I together. Nancy was like, “Janine. Hey, have you seen the sky?”. He talks about these books. He had be great for your podcast show and I ended up hiring them. And so the reason I bring all that up is, that is relationship marketing. Nancy was practicing what she preaches. She introduced me to another business owner who had a product that I had actually been looking for, I had been seriously looking for it. And the other thing Nancy did for me and she does not know about this, I am going to share it. It is that I was telling her, “look after Covid and everything I have been sitting on my butt, so much I have gained 20 pounds. I got to get back into exercising”, and she was like, “you need to go onto YouTube and check out this lady by the name of Shelly Fowler. She lives in Australia she got fabulous 50’s”, and let me tell you something ladies for women over 50 have been sitting around a lot because of Covid and just working on front of Zoom. Shelly Fowler is the exercise guru for people like me. I have to do low-impact, one too many horse accidents when I was younger, one too many car wrecks. And so I just like I said, Nancy, practices what she preaches when it comes to this relationship marketing gig she got it on lock. So Nancy, do not you I am just going to leave it open to tell us a little bit more about what you do and how you do it. It is awesome.
Nancy: Well Janine, I love to be a connector and if you genuinely enjoy seeing other people flourished and you enjoy watching them thrive. It is easy to want to connect people that you know could support each other or with their synergy or the possibility of actually doing business together and I take that very seriously. I love connecting people sending introductions and ,hence, yeah, that is what relationship marketing is. It is in letting people get those connections going.
Janine: So thank you so much for being with us today, and I highly encourage folks to grab yourself a copy of compelling selling. And just take a tour through it. It is not one of those heavy books where you’re trying to figure out huge strategies or whatever. I have thumbed through it and I always get gold nuggets from every book. I thumbed through I always get excited when I have two or three and that is what happened with Nancy. The other thing is, is when it comes to relationship marketing it is not about selling anything. It is about helping other people thrive. And for those of you out there who are in the non-fiction world. You understand that for those of you that are in the fictional world and you are writing mystery theory, so you have mystery novels or thrillers or romance novels. Maybe you have no idea how to go about using some of the techniques we are taking about. Would you give Nancy a call? I mean she would love to chat with you because there are ways to market those books just as effectively through relationship marketing as any other and she going to help give you some tips on that. So, Nancy any last words you care to share with us stand the listeners today?
Nancy: I, the last words are keep writing. Do not make them last words. Make them words that are your legacy because really that is what a book is all about. It is something that will live on beyond you, carries your message. Your family will be so excited. I know I have another author in my family, which is my older brother. He is eight years my senior and he is a physical chemist at Stanford University. And I must admit that I proudly displayed his first book, that of it was on Quantum physical chemistry or some such crazy name and it was just so exciting to see that. So, you know, the last word is do not let it be your last word, keep writing.
Janine: Thank you. I agree with that. I love stories. So I cherish my fictional writers just as much as I do the non fiction and non fiction or educating me making better expanding me. Oh, and the fictional writers you guys take me out of reality. You let me play in your playground, you know, you have a whole new sandbox, you got fairies and gnomes and dragons and whoever note, you know, whatever else you are working on and I just your stories are important to all of us and as fellow authors and published authors of that Nancy and I really encourage you, please keep writing. I agree with that one hundred percent.
Nancy, thank you so much for your time today. Will probably have you back you. Since, you have those other books on the back burner definitely reach back around to us, and this is Janine Bolon, with the writers are creative conversations wrapping it up. So keep your feet firmly planted on the ground. Keep your hands on the keyboard. Keep typing and keep reaching for those stars.