Author Podcasting with Craig Handley and Janine Bolon: The 99 Authors Project

The 99 Authors Project – Season 5 – Episode 11 with Craig Handley32 min read

Craig Handley

He is a musician writing music for artists all over the world, and the author of a best selling book called “Hired To Quit.”

Craig  also moonlights as CEO of his company ListenTrust, which was named #1 in Business Products and Service where they do about 150M in sales for their clients. He is also the CEO of SocialClose, a social media company that’s gone from 0 to almost 1M in revenue in the past year.

Transcript of the Show

Bryan Hyde
Welcome to the Janine Bolon Show, where we share tips from around the globe. As we guide practical people with their finances using money tips, increase their incomes through side businesses, and maintain their sanity by staying in their creative zone.

Janine Bolon
Hi, this is Janine Bolon and today on The Janine Bolon Show we have with us a wonderful guest by the name of Craig Handley. He is one of our spotlighted authors for the 99 Authors Project. And as you know, we’d like to help you save time, save money, or save your sanity. And of course, my particular case, you know, that may be a lost cause. And with Craig as well, he’s kind of hard to describe. So what I’m going to do is just go over the intro. Now, this is what the man handed me to read. He said, he is the author of the best selling. Sorry, I had to say it, he handed me this. He is the best selling author of Hired to Quit. He is a musician writing music for artists all over the world. He moonlights as a CEO of his own company, ListenTrust, which is number one in the Business Products and Service, where they do over $150 million in sales for their clients. Now, you know, because that wasn’t enough. So now, Craig runs a social media company called SocialClose that really went from zero to almost a million dollars in revenue in the past year. He’s also in charge of marketing, five original TV shows, and other original content that’s run on the Veuit platform where he sits us to CMO. I’m wondering is that the Chief Marketing Officer? Is that what I’m to understand?

Craig Handley
Yeah, yeah. Somehow, I ended up in the Chief Marketing Officers chair with that big old company, so.

Janine Bolon
Fabulous, well done. He has also served and this is near and dear to my heart. He has served five years in the US Army because I’m a Navy brat. So Army and Navy we get along just fine unless we’re playing each other in football.

Janine Bolon
He has also served during the first Iraqi war. And then after he’d left with an honorable discharge, he decided, you know, that wasn’t enough. So he went cage diving with great white sharks, he repelled down in Table Mountain, South Africa, he drove the Baja 500 trail in Mexico, hikes through the jungles of Malaysia, and then decided Iceland was where he needed to go and he snowmobiled across a live volcano, swam in the Blue Lagoon, dove in the famed Silfra Fissure, which is the only dive site in the world where you can dive in this crack between literally two continental plates, it’s totally epic. And then still, that wasn’t enough to have fun with so he decided he would be the 85th civilian in the world ever, to jump out of a plane above 32,000 feet. Now this is significant to those of us in Colorado, because we know all about Halo jumping and Halo dives. And this is out of respect. He says he didn’t want mosquitoes to bite him so he had to get to 32,000 feet before that happened. He’s partied with Akon and Snoop Dogg and other celebrities who asked him for his autograph, because they thought he starred in Vikings or Game of Thrones. And guess what? He chose not to correct their thinking, Craig, thanks very much for being on the show with us today.

Craig Handley
It’s hard to write a bio when you’ve done so many things. I’m like, I could write a shortened version. And I have some shortened versions. But I’m like, you know, but sometimes I’ll send the longer version and the host will usually edit it. So that was good reading the whole thing like that was pretty impressive.

Janine Bolon
Well, thank you. I’ve been in radio since 1982. And when somebody decides that they’re going to actually put in the work to write a bio like that, I am going to highlight all those points, because I think people think that after a certain period of time, you just stop living. And if anything, there are certain personality types like yourself who are like, hey, let’s make this happen. Let’s keep pushing the envelope. I am far from dead yet.

Craig Handley
It’s that imposter syndrome, right? I’m three steps from glory.

Craig Handley
And the reality is is like when I want to do something like I dream of winning like a Grammy for Song of the Year. And, you know, I have all these big goals and big dreams. And when I do it, I’m like, okay, and then I walk by the trophies on the shelf, you know, and I’m like, I’m still three steps away from where I really want to be.

Craig Handley
It’s that imposter syndrome, right? We’re always at least my personality type. There’s always more to do. Thank God.

Janine Bolon
There is, there is it’s what keeps us engaged. It keeps us creating it keeps us pushing forward. And so since this is part of the 12 books that we’re writing, the 99 Authors Project, I am going to cycle back around to that book that you wrote, who knows how long ago called hired? Just a couple of years.

Janine Bolon
Did it in your spare time as you were jumping out of 32,000 feet aircraft, but in Hired to Quit, talk to us a little bit about what’s the story behind that story? What inspired you to write that book?

Craig Handley
It’s funny, you know, I got accepted to Berklee and Juilliard for music and couldn’t afford either. And my parents not that they didn’t believe or want me to live my dreams, but they were kind of like, music. Eh. You know, why don’t you Why don’t you get a real job?

Janine Bolon
A real job. That’s why your generation was really hit hard with get a real job they don’t know understand, what it took for you to do what you do.

Craig Handley
And so I joined the Army to try to get college money, and it was enough for a local school. But I ended up going down the path of sales and marketing. And, and, and I was training in my call center one day. And it was weird when you train somebody; they half listen. And then they go on the phones, because I own a call center. And they work. And if I train them after they’ve been taking calls for two weeks, it’s an entirely different experience. In other words, they’re now more engaged. They’re now imagining these scenarios in their head. And I was like, how do I get people to learn the first time through so that they’re better? And I don’t have to train them twice? And the answer was to really focus on the employee and what they get. Right? Why is them being good on the phones, important to them, not just me and my clients, right. And so I started spinning things around helping people build out their life list, and talking about what they dream about doing in their lives. And then I started putting tools on our internal intranet, which allowed people to build a website or create a funnel or do Facebook marketing or buy media on Google or so I started training people on how to do things that allow them to basically hack life to accomplish their dreams.

Craig Handley
And so over a year of doing this, you know, I built out this program called DreamTrust, where I would essentially teach them about happiness, and following their dreams. And we had over 100 people, our turnover rate went down when we did this, because most people have simple dreams.

Craig Handley
But of course, most people want a car, a house and a vacation with their family. And so we put steps in place. To help with those things we negotiated with the banks to get lower interest rates in Mexico, your length of employment is equivalent to your credit score. And so we said once they worked for us for a year, can we get a milestone, a year and a half? What’s the number? And so we went through that process to help our employees get car loans and house loans. And we’re also negotiating with like Airbnb or people who have houses and properties. So all of our employees after year one, they can stay in a house that’s not quite on the beach, but it’s in a beach town. And if you’ve done really well, we can move you closer, you know, and so we use it as a bonus or as a longevity. Year three, you’re on the beach year four you’re on the beach, you know, that type of thing. So we use some common things about really focusing on employees dreams, to increase retention, lower hiring costs, and to create a happier work environment and happiness does create. We actually saw a 3% lift in our close rate across the board, when we actually implemented these tools. So the programs almost paid for themselves, right? One day, my COO came in, he goes, I’m drinking the Kool Aid, I’m quitting. I’m like, no, you’re not allowed to quit.

Craig Handley
You’re not allowed. No, but he wanted to buy a golf course that was his dream. And so he now owns two golf courses. And he said, look, he goes, I’m quitting and you’re a hypocrite you should quit too, you’ve always wanted to write music.

Craig Handley
And so I was like, hm, and so I kind of started to find operations people. And I decided, I wanted to kind of tell the story of ListenTrust, because we’re in our 16th year with 1,000 employees for almost all of those years and gone through a lot. So I wanted to talk about what we did. But a big part of the book, you know, Hired to Quit Inspired to Stay, was about our culture, and our core values and DreamTrust and those programs. I mean, I also had some things about partnerships and some things about how to execute through a turnaround. And there were some other things in there, but a lot of it was based on Hired to Quit training my employees the day I hire them to quit. So I wanted to tell that story. So while I was kind of stepping out of stepping out of operations, then I ended up writing this book while I was doing other things, and I found operations people to kind of take over and after the book, I’ve started writing music. And that’s how SocialClose was built because I was trying to rebrand myself as a marketer and entrepreneur and musician. And other people started asking me to help them and I’m like, no, no, no, eight months if it’s not a business. And finally, I went well, I’ll try it for a couple of people. And six months later I had 50 employees, and you know, 50 clients. I didn’t really want this, I’m a good marketer. So I’m able to help a lot of people. And I guess I should help people. You know, in music, I’ve been able to tie music into a lot of the marketing that we do by writing jingles. Or, you know, when we work with authors, I will actually interview them about their book, and I interview them with a basically, the podcasts are the producer, two songwriters and a singer. And so we literally interview people for their new book coming out, and then we turn the interview into a jingle. And when I marketed my book, and did a jingle called Craig Handley, I mean, I sold almost 10,000 books with this darn viral jingle that everybody wanted to see, you know, so I was like, a jingle helps, right? It’s, you know, so I’m able to combine music and marketing quite effectively with a lot of the things that we do. So. So that’s the long story of where the book came from. Sorry.

Janine Bolon
All right. Oh, no, no, please don’t apologize. Listen, we’re all authors on this podcast. And that’s what we live for, right is the story. You know, we live to hear other people’s stories as well as write our own. And so one of the things that I enjoy being able to ask people is, what was something in your marketing plan that you did that was very successful that you think can be something that an author can repeat? That would be successful.

Craig Handley
Very interesting. I, when I marketed my book, I did it all myself, and I wrote down as a marketer, I wrote down all the things I did really well. And then I made a list of all the things I wish I did, like, man I wish I did. So I created a lot of great content, I basically decided to run a virtual book launch, instead of going to Barnes and Noble and doing a cross country book tour, I did a virtual book launch. So I set up some webinars to talk about my book. But I basically created a series of videos, where I covered each chapter, some behind the scenes stories that weren’t in the book. And I tried to create this content. And my plan was to release content. Like here, here, here, here. But actually, in all reality, I’d set my launch date. And by the time all my content got back to me, I kind of threw up all over people with my gut, like, here’s a video. Here’s another one. Wait, I got one more, hang on, no, this is the fourth, this is the fifth. And I wore the same shirt. And so you didn’t really know it was a different video. And so I learned a lot about this process. And interestingly enough, when I was just marketing, Craig Handley, and there wasn’t a lot of clients yet, Benjamin Hardy, who wrote Personality Isn’t Permanent, and Who Not How and he’s a doctor. And he’s an amazing author and writer. He was the number one writer for Medium.com at one point, and just an amazing author, and he called me out of the blue. Craig, I know you’re doing some marketing and branding stuff. And he’s like, I need 3,000 books in the next three days, two and a half days in order to make the New York Times bestseller, do you have Alex Mandossian recommended that I talk to you. And I’m like, well I’ll give it a shot. One of the things we did really well was we created like a digital door to door process where we go into your LinkedIn and your Instagram. And we literally go to your own contacts. And there’s a couple of strategies that we put together. But one is just hey I’ve got a new book, I’d love to have you buy it if you’d share some content, I’d love that too.

Craig Handley
We ended up doing more than 3,000 books in a couple of days, his audience was super receptive. And it was you know; it was a cool process. And so I was like, huh. And so some of the things that we recommend are, who’s your tribe, right? So we had another book, it was a relationship book, and they had very few followers. We happen to go out and found 300 people in the relationship space, many of them had hundreds of 1,000s of followers. And we built the tribe. And so we basically created the content, we put all the content into a Google Drive folder, Dropbox folder, whatever. And then all of those 300 people, we set up timing, share it at three o’clock on Monday, share this at five o’clock Tuesday share this. And so my team set all of the shared dates, things like that. And the way those people got paid as they were selling the book, nobody got any money from the book, but if someone bought through your funnel, then if those people went to the relationship seminar for 3500, that was on the back end, you got paid $350 or something like that. So we had an affiliate campaign tied into it for a live event, and not always does that exist, but we ended up finding over 300 people who decided to support their launch. We, going into their only pin things like that it wasn’t our primary focus, but we only sold a couple 1,000 bucks over a month. But the tribes, the 300 people, they ended up selling around 12 to 15,000 books, which allowed them to make some bestseller lists on Amazon. I don’t know if they made Wall Street Journal, a lot of people your, your audience probably knows. But if you don’t sell a certain number of nooks, you’re disqualified from New York Times.

Janine Bolon
They’re very strange rules and they’re always shifting too, that’s the other thing. It’s almost, it’s a moving target. So I always tell people just focus on what you need. Just focus on what your personal brand needs to be successful. Yeah.

Craig Handley
It’s not that I didn’t want a New York Times or Wall Street Journal, USA Today bestseller, but I wanted the book to establish more credibility in my brand. Sure. And, you know, we’ll help you with speaking if I wanted to do more speaking. And it accomplished, I mean, five bestseller lists on Amazon, which isn’t as cool as some of the other ones. But I know I pushed around 20,000 books, you know, so I thought that was okay. You know.

Janine Bolon
Oh yeah, I think that’s brilliant. Dude, that’s awesome.

Craig Handley
And look. So I decided SocialClose would do we work with authors every week. And we have a lot of book publishing companies that use us to help authors do bestseller campaigns. Now, the interesting thing, a best seller campaign is typically 50 to $250,000, as you probably are well aware. We’re charging 4,000 a month, and we’re helping people make bestseller lists, most of the people who are charging 50 grand are given five with us, you know, so and so we, you know, we typically do anywhere from two to 12,000 books during a launch. And sometimes if people have a great audience, we could do it in a month. If people don’t have a great following, we need we need a couple of months.

Janine Bolon
Right?

Craig Handley
And so we’ve ended up doing through SocialClose, based on my own experiences and the things I did wrong and the things I did right. We ended up now I think we’ve done 40, 45, 50 book launch campaigns for people and and look, and I view it as I don’t want to charge 50,000. And I want to help people, if you think about it, when we if we sell 5,000 books, and we charge $4,000, as long as you’re not giving your book away for free, it should be something that spins a profit. Right? Literally, if you make more than $1 royalty, and you do as long as you sell your book for something as opposed to nothing. It’s a profitable thing, and it goes towards everything else that you’re trying to do. So I wanted to be a relationship builder. You know, I’m successful as it is, I don’t need to make a boatload of money. Although some people think if I make a million, I might as well make two, I really wanted to set my future on helping people and using relationship equity in order to create other relationships that would then generate wealth. And I didn’t want us to think about it. And I think that’s kind of the matrix. The matrix of life is just if you want to look through all the, the numbers and the codes that are flying around the universe, just help other people just be good to other people and help them accomplish their goals and their dreams. Those people will express gratitude to you in whatever way they can whether they hire you, or refer other people to you or, but you don’t do it for the gratitude. You do it because you believe in that person. And you want to support them and everything that they do. And so that’s the approach I tried to take in business is, how do I support you in everything that you do? And yeah, if there’s a reason to make this to share some some of the revenues that are coming in, you know, I don’t mind. I don’t I don’t hate money. But I don’t want to make it my focus, you know.

Janine Bolon
Right. Exactly. Yeah. Don’t want to make it the reason for your being. And that, I think is what differentiates you from a lot of folks. Yeah.

Craig Handley
If people look at you for what you can get they’re placing a value on who you are. And to me, we’re all the same. If you’re a beggar in the streets, you’re just as important as the CEO of Nike. I mean, it doesn’t matter to me who you are. As long as you’re real and authentic. I want to help. I don’t care if you got a million dollars, or if you got $50, You know, I mean, my time is valuable, but, but I try not to overdo it on what we charge people because I want to experience relationships, I want to experience helping somebody live their dream, like that gets me excited, is when I help somebody make a best seller and then it just changes their life. Or in there, you know, they get more in there changes their outcome. And I think if I can help a million people, then I’ve lived a good life. You know, I don’t need anything else. Right?

Janine Bolon
Exactly. So yeah, for the for the book. One of the questions I like to ask every author that comes on is, you’ve been very good about thank you so much for sharing with us things that worked. The areas that you were able to promote. You did might mention the one time where you had way too much content and video and you kind of overwhelmed your people with the videos and all that. But what is something that you tried that was an epic failure? Because I think a lot of times we authors learn from each other’s epic failure. So was there anything you tried or did that you look back on it and you go, hey, save your money, don’t do this.

Craig Handley
Look, one of them is rushing the content. I mean that obviously, people you know, and of course, when I work, you don’t understand the significance of just putting on a different shirt, right? Because you got to think of what you’re showing people as a thumbnail. And so if you’re wearing the same shirt, people might think it’s the same video. But I can tell you some epic failures we’ve seen in marketing for others. Okay, we’ve had a lot of authors go out and buy bots, bought traffic. And so we had one guy who told us he had 47,000 followers on Instagram. So we went through and part of our strategy based on that was to contact his friends and family through Instagram and offer them a book sale, well, 45,000 of his 47,000 were bots. And you can’t sell to a computer, right? Or, like people will buy followers in India or Philippines or just cheap little places where they aren’t gonna buy your book. And so I’ve seen epic failures in the sense that people think, hey, if I buy my audience, and I’ve got to now I’ve got a big tribe, that’s clout. Well, that’s an epic failure, because it screws up your algorithm, your engagement rate goes from 20% down to two. If you want something to go viral, like for example, sometimes, okay, every time we’ll do a video, but the video will be like, what are some three things we’re going to cover in your book and last, the author’s the point here, here and here. And we’ll pop it up into text like this book is going to cover this, this and this, but then we’ll run the video at 300% speed. Why do we do that? Because the average person watches that video five times instead of once. If I have 300 people watch that video at the same time, same time of day, the algorithm and Instagram gets tricked. Because people are watching this video, on average five times a piece times the 300 people who sent it out times the size of the audience, I can fool Instagram into thinking that this is a viral reel, which means they’ll organically show it to people, as opposed to having to buy paid media.

Janine Bolon
Thank you very much. I love it when people answer my question and then give us a gold nugget on top of it.

Craig Handley
Don’t buy a fake audience because you can’t sell to them.

Janine Bolon
You can’t.

Craig Handley
It doesn’t make you a big deal if you’ve got if you’ve got 45,000 friends that are all computers.

Janine Bolon
Yeah, that’s one of the things that a lot of people are shocked when they find out. I’m an author of 11 books. I’m working on book number 12. I have an agreement getting ready to be signed for book number 13. And they say, well, what’s the size of your audience? And I said, depending upon the demographic, the largest audience I have is 718 people. And they’re like, what? And I’m like.

Craig Handley
But they’re real.

Janine Bolon
Yes, correct. Yes, sir. I know, every single one of those people and I have a 42.8% open rate. And I’ve an 18.6% click through rate. So these are insane numbers. And yet, I still am unable to get on certain podcasts and shows because I am seen as not having a large enough audience. And I’m like, well, it depends. I write in four different genres. So it depends on what area so but that’s my largest list size. So thank you for kind of helping me explain to feet people that sometimes it’s the smaller folks like under 1000, but they have the highest engagement of an audience and they can serve you very well. And I think a lot of people don’t understand that. So thank you for helping me.

Craig Handley
With authors and musicians, I have a strategy, who your first 1,000 fans that are willing to spend $100 a year on supporting you, because that’s how you get to a six-digit income, you know, and then you just grow from there. You know, let’s say it takes three years to build an audience of 1,000 people that are willing to give you 100 bucks. Okay, I mean, that’s less time than college. And I believe that everybody can do anything that they want to do. If you want to be a gamer, if you want to do this. You can do anything you want to do through networking and building a fan base of just 1,000 people that are willing to support you in some way. With as little as what’s that seven bucks a month, eight bucks a month, something like that? For 100 bucks a year. Yeah.

Janine Bolon
Yeah, that’ll work.

Craig Handley
Nothing. And so I always focus on that with people to how are you going to find those fans and, and then by the way, when you get those 1,000 fans, they’ll share content, they’ll, you know, they’ll share information. So you’re going to reach if you’ve got 1,000 people are committed, you’re going to reach, you know, maybe 100 to 200,000 people with that audience, you know, so I know what you’re saying but a lot of people like, oh, you won’t get a smaller audience. I don’t want you on my podcast or whatever. But it’s how is your engagement with your audience?

Janine Bolon
Yep. And so they kind of helped me identify who, who I want to work with. You know, and that’s one of the things I’m anytime I’m told, no, sorry, you don’t have over 5,000 people in your list. And I go, okay, moving on. I’ll find somebody else, who is after really serving the community that they have, you know, I really want to take care of my people I have a vested interest in those people.

Craig Handley
For your first 1,000 fans, one of my new strategies that I’ve put out there with musicians and authors is to take your book cover, and to turn it into a piece of art. And to have it as an NFT. And to, let’s say, you have one painting, and you break it into 1,000 squares, and you buy each square $100. Well, if your book becomes a best seller, what I recommend is if you don’t have a huge audience to gift it to your fans, and as the book starts to rise, you’re basically giving your fans money to be a fan, right? Because there, they can resell that piece if the book starts to get traction and the music, it’s a record cover, a single, you know, it’s a painting that encompasses what the single is about. So you might not be Billie Eilish today, but you might be Billie Eilish tomorrow. And if you were gifted a paint, you know, piece of a painting, it helps really bring your community together. So you say, look, if you know, your 718 fans, would be perfect, I would break it down, and I’d say I’m gonna give away to my 718 people, I’m gonna break this down to 718 fans, you guys are really loyal to me. Or maybe you’ve got other audiences. So you could break down to 1,000, really loyal, I’m gonna gift this to you. And if you ever want to sell your piece of the Mona Lisa, as my book climbs the charts, that you can, and they literally show how they bought it for zero, it was resold at 12 cents. Resold at 36 cents resold, you know, and so they literally don’t show the ramp of the value of that piece of art. But the biggest thing is it really brings your community closer together, right? It allows them to talk about something, to engage with you, to wow, I got gifted something, and everybody who gets a square gets a full copy of the print, but they own one, you know, 1/100 of the picture as an example.

Janine Bolon
Right? No, that’s brilliant idea. Thank you so much. Like I said, you keep giving us these gold nuggets. And I hope people are listening, because you definitely know what you’re talking about when it comes to building community and serving.

Craig Handley
Yeah you gotta build community and give things away and, and give them a chance. Like, you have a cool quote, in your book that you’re proud of, well, that’s a t shirt or a hat. You know, I mean, if you’ve got a loyal audience, why wouldn’t they buy some of those extra things? You know?

Janine Bolon
It’s totally true. So just out of curiosity, say somebody’s listening, and they want to sign up. They want to be a part of your world. They want to have you helping them with their book launch. Where do they go?

Craig Handley
Just join me on Tinder and swipe right, no.

Janine Bolon
That’s great.

Craig Handley
I’m pretty easy to find. It’s just like [email protected], or [email protected], or I’m Craig Hindley, in all of my social media, you know, Facebook, I bought it all before the Craig Handley in England, who’s the film director bought it all.

Janine Bolon
He probably had to use his middle initial or something like that, to differentiate.

Craig Handley
I have so much media on there. If you look up Craig Handley, it shows that I’m a film director in England.

Janine Bolon
Just to let you all know. So thank you so much for hanging out with us today and finding time to fit us into your incredibly busy schedule. It is such a delight to have you on the show. And is there anything you care to share with us before we go for today?

Craig Handley
I think I tried to share a lot of good nuggets for people. I mean, I think the biggest thing is if you’re a young person, or no matter what your age is, to go after your dreams. And to understand that it’s it doesn’t take a lot. Within three to five years, you should be able to be an expert in your field, you should be able to get your 10,000 hours in. And so I talked to young people in my phone, I have 12 billionaires and about 700 millionaires. Why are they in my phone? When I met them one of these billionaires, the first time I met him, we were at dinner together. And you know what we both had for dinner. We just had the bread, you know, because that’s where we were in our lives. If you’re never too old to start building a network, and you might get lucky and meet some bigger people, but if you’re all if you’re with a community of people who have a goal, and we’re all putting our 10,000 hours in together and we’re all part of a community, then within three years you should be somebody in that group is gonna make it and the people that trust you the most are the ones that believes are the ones that that you believed in before they were anybody. You know what I mean?

Janine Bolon
Yeah, yes, most definitely.

Craig Handley
Yeah. Like, once I become, you know, some filthy rich and famous. And you call up all Craig, I’ve always been a fan. Yeah, okay, whatever. You never called me once, until you realize they had something that you could use, you know? Since I was 20 years old, I always, it was partly because I didn’t feel like somebody believed in my dream. Since I was 20 I truly tried to believe in other people, and just kept there. I kept building my network and building. Well today, you know, 20 some odd years later, you know, I’ve got this giant Rolodex of people who most people can’t, can’t get in touch with these people anymore. You know, I mean, I’ve got Richard Branson’s contact info, right? I got a friendship with him. And, you know, but it’s, it’s, it’s years and years of doing this. So if you want to be a gamer, or you want to be, you know, if you’re if you’re writing a book that’s talking about an expertise, but you’re not really fully inundated in that world yet, get in that world, you know, and, and just trust that if you believe in other people in that space, and somebody makes it, if you’re one of those people that believed in them, and they thought of you as a friend, before they made it, you’re still a friend after matter of fact, you’re more of a friend. And so I guess that would be my last tidbit to share, as you know, for these authors that are really trying to become an expert in the space is, you know, really dive into it and learn who else is in the space and, and find mentors and find friendships that you can help develop them, and believe in other people, even if they seem as crazy as I am.

Janine Bolon
This is true. Thank you so much for your time today. And if you are an author, or you know of an author that you would like us to spotlight, please visit our website at Author Podcasting.com where you’ll find the 99 Author Project listed. We talk to all authors from all walks of life, and we build out book number 12, which is Advice from Authors to Authors, which is due out to be published in 2023. And this is Janine Bolon signing off for today and all of us here at the gates that produces the Janine Bolon Show. We wish you a wonderful week. And we encourage you to get your message, your story or your knowledge out into the world. Make it a better place just like these authors that we’re interviewing this year. We’ll see you again next week. And until then, keep sharing what you know with others, keep shining that light that is you and don’t forget to go out today and do something for yourself that’s just plain fun. We’ll see you next week.

Bryan Hyde
Thank you for listening to the Janine Bolon Show. Be sure to subscribe to our show notes by going to www.theJanineBolonshow.com, where you’ll find additional resources as well as the opportunity to sign up to receive our program in your email each week. Be sure to visit our sponsor at www.the8gates.com.